Jonathan Steedman (00:01.727)

Welcome back food groupies. I got Jenna again with me today, which is exciting. I think it's been a little bit too long since we've, yeah, well not since we've chatted, but specifically since we've recorded ourselves chatting for a podcast. And so I'm excited and it's a little bit different from some of the stuff we've spoken about. Obviously, if you guys haven't listened to Jenna is the sports audition extraordinaire. So we've got a bunch of episodes I'm feeling for CrossFit, feeling for...

Jenna (00:07.983)

It's been a while.

Jenna (00:21.035)

and good.

Jonathan Steedman (00:29.513)

for training in general and things, so make sure you check those out. And then a really good episode. Not saying that myself, lots of people told us this to do with diet and mental health and things like that. make sure you listen to those. we're gonna talk about something a little bit differently today.

Jenna (00:37.221)

Okay.

Jonathan Steedman (00:48.958)

Who are you? Jenna? Introduce yourself. Cohen, you got to do it.

Jenna (00:53.386)

You just did. Well, yes.

Jonathan Steedman (00:54.846)

Which one's for? Just said you're a sports scientist. That's all. There's more to you than being a sports scientist.

Jenna (01:02.178)

There is more to me than being a sports dietician. But yes, yes, yes, yes, I'm a sports dietician. I guess like in this space, because I could tell you all about me, you know, from a professional standpoint, from a non-professional standpoint. Yes, sports dietician, super into crossfit, weightlifting, all that kind of stuff. That stuff in my gym, running less likely, but also really big on

mental health. And that's where, you know, like our podcast on mental health came in. ADHD, you know, dealing with sorted eating, I guess eating behaviors, you know, relationship with food. is another really big thing that I am super passionate about and spend a lot of time talking to people about. And then, I do all the other like, you know, general dietitian things. I'm just going to sell myself as like one big old super dietitian, but

Jonathan Steedman (01:56.297)

she could do it all.

Jenna (01:57.642)

I can do it all. No, I can't do it all. Please do not come to me about children or fertility. I cannot do that.

Jonathan Steedman (02:03.87)

Yeah, amen. Amen. So look, one big I would say is, if I if you have gotten a tip from me, not you, Jenna, you listening or clients or whatever, I've gotten a tip from me that is like a quick meal idea, or ADHD, or like food mental health hack, there's like an 80 to 90 % chance that I stole it from Jenna. So so yes, she is a wizard in that space.

Jenna (02:28.244)

You

Jonathan Steedman (02:31.935)

But today we're going to talk about eating healthy and losing weight and the links between those two because it is a conversation that we've had a lot and we wanted to record it to give you a bit of a better, a broader answer around.

Jenna (02:39.043)

Yes.

Jonathan Steedman (02:52.623)

Is eating healthy going to help me lose weight? Is that the only thing I need to worry about? And I guess there's a lot of discussion that we'll have from there. So let's start with a very easy question. What is a healthy diet? What is eating healthy?

Jenna (03:05.069)

Yeah. And we've talked about this before, anytime either of us says healthy, it always comes in quotation marks. Look, I think we have to say the very general of like, eating healthy is different for every single person. So like, for some person eating healthy is going to someone is going to be just making sure they're not skipping meals, they're eating regularly. For someone else, it's making sure that they're eating more plants or they're getting

you know, more calcium in their diet, more protein, all of that kind of stuff. So it's really hard to pin it down to like, this is what eating healthy means. But I think for the context of what we're going to talk about, if we maybe make the blanket statement of eating healthy means eating a nutritious diet. So I think that we can, most people can agree when whenever you say like eating healthy, the big things that come to mind and making sure that we're, you know,

eating our five food groups, we've got plenty of protein, we've got fruits, vegetables, plants, grains, healthy fats, that kind of idea of the plate model and everything like that. That's kind of where most people think healthy eating is, eating more whole foods, less processed foods. I think for the context of what we're going to talk about, that's kind of the healthy diet that we are going to.

be referring to.

Jonathan Steedman (04:32.975)

Yeah, so if we're talking about eating healthier, it's someone who's eating more of those things, adding more of those things onto their plate. So essentially, and maybe also removing some other things, not that we necessarily focus on the removal, but as a bit of a byproduct.

Jenna (04:39.564)

Hmm. Yeah, like.

Jenna (04:47.052)

Yeah, I think for a lot of like the conversations that I've had with clients, especially like it's the start of a new year, this is a very, you know, prevalent time for everyone to be looking at eating healthier. The big things is yeah, like I'm not eating any fast food. I'm not eating any chocolate chips, you know, I'm really, you know, sticking to the straight and narrow and just having, you know, my protein and my veggies. That's kind of, yeah, the big one.

Jonathan Steedman (05:20.413)

And we're not here to knock healthy eating. We're also not going to talk about why adding more vitamins and minerals and nutrients and fiber to your day is a good idea. Like, of course it is, but specifically, like you said around this question that we get asked a lot. is that the way to lose weight? Like if I have a goal of weight loss, should I be focusing on eating healthier, including more of those things? Is that all I need to do?

Jenna (05:44.755)

I really wanted to just throw a big old it depends in there. It's a good start. It's a it's a it is a good start and I can see where most people when they're thinking about okay well I need to I want to lose weight not that we need to lose weight but I want to lose weight I'm gonna start eating healthy.

Jonathan Steedman (05:50.298)

Do it.

Jenna (06:05.486)

So it's a good first start because like we already mentioned, for most people that means that maybe we are increasing our plants, we're focusing on protein with every meal, we're not snacking as much, or maybe like, you know, the more calorie dense kinds of food. So for some people, yeah, actually just switching to that, you know, healthy diet mindset or, you know, protocol, whatever you want to call it.

is going to be helpful because there has already been that reduction, we're going to talk the magic c word in a moment, but that reduction in calories already from that shift.

Jonathan Steedman (06:40.518)

Can't just say C word and not actually say that you mean calories. But yes, okay, good.

Jenna (06:47.18)

Yes. It's not that kind of podcast. didn't think we would. Yeah. So yeah, for some people, yes, that's absolutely what's gonna, is gonna happen. But also, that's not the only thing that needs to happen if we're talking, you know, fat loss or weight loss.

Jonathan Steedman (07:08.336)

Yeah. So step one, if your goal is weight loss, trying to improve your diet quality is not a bad idea, right? Like we'd still recommend that. And so I guess the next question is, and where we get to have a lot of discussions because we see lots of people who have done that. So why and haven't lost that weight. So why could someone have improved their diet quality and not seen weight loss? What are some of the reasons that might not line up?

Jenna (07:16.31)

Absolutely not. Yeah.

Jenna (07:29.634)

and

Jenna (07:37.61)

Yeah. So the big magic thing for weight loss or fat loss that people maybe don't necessarily want to believe is that, it needs to be a calorie deficit. The prime mover for fat loss is being in a calorie deficit. now again, like diet quality is still super important. We're not negating that. But if we take those two concepts of like, cool, our healthy diet on one side,

and a calorie deficit on the other, we can see that there is that overlap. Like if we're thinking, you know, like a nicely drawn Venn diagram, there is that small little overlap in the middle where, cool, focusing on that healthy eating has reduced our processed food intake, reduced our calorie dense foods and transitioned us into that calorie deficit. But that's not enough. You can still be eating very nutrient dense.

calorie dense foods within a healthy diet. And so therefore in order for us to continue or maybe, you know, transition into a weight loss phase, we do need to start thinking less about the bigger picture diet quality and more so about, how many calories am I consuming?

Jonathan Steedman (08:55.003)

Yeah. Yeah. Have you done that Venn diagram post? If you haven't made that a post, I feel like you should. There you go. It's it's right for the picking. Yeah. So we need both. That what that I reckon you can now just condense that down. Um, yeah, that's so I love there's a guy in the States who for six weeks ate nothing but protein powder and ice cream. That's all he did.

Jenna (09:02.994)

Yep. Well, that's what this whole podcast came about because I couldn't describe what I wanted to describe in a picture.

Jonathan Steedman (09:23.835)

And so he was definitely in a calorie deficit and he lost I think like eight or nine kilos in that time, which was pretty wild because he stuck to the calorie deficit side of the Venn diagram. But he also said it was like the worst he has ever felt. Yeah, like bowel wise, energy wise, motivation. He stopped going to the gym because he couldn't, you know, like couldn't be bothered because he didn't do the other side of the Venn diagram. Right. And so I think he can have it both ways or it can be

Jenna (09:34.37)

Good. Good.

Jonathan Steedman (09:52.921)

both directions, can have clients that are, or people, we call them clients, but or future clients, people who aren't clients yet. They can be in a deficit, but maybe suffering from a health or energy perspective, because they're not paying attention to diet quality. But like you said, I think probably more often we see the other side, hey, improved quality, and not not being in a deficit.

Jenna (10:02.702)

you

Mm.

Jenna (10:13.94)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jonathan Steedman (10:21.044)

So the million dollar, like how, how can I have both? Can I have both? Can I optimal, can I have a perfectly optimal diet for my goals and lose weight?

Jenna (10:28.29)

Hmm.

Jenna (10:36.118)

Unfortunately, probably not. With some context, like that's not, I don't want anyone to be out there and be like, well, all right, looks like I'm eating nothing but protein powder and ice cream to lose my weight. There is always a compromise on these things. so when we, and I'm sure we're going to dig into this a little bit deeper, but when we're talking about, you know, certain goals around, you know,

Jonathan Steedman (10:40.333)

What?

Jonathan Steedman (10:49.527)

you

Jenna (11:05.97)

more anti-inflammatory foods, getting more iron in your diet, performance is another one, you know, reducing our risk of cholesterol and all those kinds of things. They all center around the inclusion of certain foods. And then when we think about it, something that I like to explain with a lot of my clients, and I think I definitely stole this from you, is we're talking about, you know, a calorie budget. Like we've only got so many calories to spend. We've got a few bills to pay and that, you know, means that

We are still going to be able to touch on a few things, you know, in terms of like anti-inflammatory and iron and all that kind of nutrients, the quality. But our budget is only finite. And so we're not going to be able to pay all of those bills right now while our budget is quite tight. Once we're out of our fat loss phase and our weight loss phase, cool, we get a few more calories to spend. And that's when we can start being a little bit more intentional with focusing on maybe some of these more, you know,

I was going say minute goals, but they're definitely not minute goals. Specific goals. That's the word that I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. So like, cool. Now we've got more calories to spend. We've got more room in our budget. So now we can, we can funnel a little bit more into some of those more specific foods. But when we're really quite tight, we're maybe not putting as much into all of those buckets as we would want to.

Jonathan Steedman (12:10.573)

Longer term or, sorry, the short term, yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

Jonathan Steedman (12:31.799)

Yes. Yeah. Can you maybe give me some specific examples around because at least from my experience, the anti-inflammatory or Mediterranean style diet and fat loss is the like when you look at all the foods that are recommended on the diet quality side and how that might not always line up with the calorie deficit side. Like why is that diet one that is hard to what's the word I'm looking for? Yeah. Yeah.

Jenna (12:51.552)

Morning.

Jenna (12:57.089)

Align.

Jenna (13:01.742)

Yeah, well when we think about the Mediterranean diet and anti-inflammatory diets which are centered around that, we're looking at that inclusion predominantly. The big ticket of the Mediterranean diet is including more healthy fats, so more things like our fatty fish, so salmon, like that, avocado, nuts and seeds, olive oils, which are all very, what we would call, nutrient dense and really great

sources of anti-inflammatory foods and to make it very broad. But also if we look at the calories within those foods, they're also very calorie dense because they are high in fats, which means that cool, if we're having a diet that's centered around the Mediterranean or one aspect of the Mediterranean diet, it can be really hard for us to get, you know, all of the

benefits that we need from the anti-inflammatory diet into a calorie deficit and still leave you enough room in that budget to enjoy other things in life. Like, yeah, cool. It's not impossible. You definitely can do it, but you're probably going to be eating a lot of salmon and avocado, maybe not a ton of, you know, rice or potatoes or pasta or things like that, because we have to trade them off from a calorie standpoint. So that's why those two in particular.

It doesn't mean that we completely avoid salmon and avocado and all of those really healthy things. It's just we maybe not be able to get them in the optimal amount to have the anti-inflammatory effects and still be in that calorie deficit and still enjoy carbs and other proteins and other foods at the same time.

Jonathan Steedman (14:51.862)

Yeah, yeah, awesome. That makes a ton of sense. So that's how this is the word I was looking for before. If you want to reconcile those two goals of optimally hitting the Mediterranean diet, you may not be able to optimally achieve a calorie deficit or vice versa. So it might be like during the calorie deficit fat loss phase, we might have to compromise a little on Mediterranean diet. And then like you said, when you're out of that phase, we can

You can do that again. The last one we'll touch on, because I know this is very near and dear to your heart. Similar sort of thing where we're trying to reconcile this goal of being in a weight loss phase, being in a fat loss phase and peak performance. Like what are some compromises or what's the push and pull we might have to work on there?

Jenna (15:39.566)

So again, something that I, a conversation that I always have with any, you know, client that comes to me, I like to call them athletes just because it feels nice. yeah, everyone's an athlete in my eyes. But look, when we've got someone that's coming in that's very active and they've also got those weight loss goals, we need to, I guess, expectations because a big thing around

Jonathan Steedman (15:53.131)

Yeah, those ones are, yeah.

Jenna (16:07.438)

weight loss is that calorie deficit. And then when we put that in context of performance, it is intentional under-fuelling. You are in a calorie deficit, not eating enough calories to promote the fat loss. Then could be said then we're not eating enough calories for optimal performance because we are under-fuelling. And so we have to compromise. And this is very person dependent. I've got some athletes that

know, performance is a really big, really important thing to them, more so than their body composition goals. And so maybe we start with a really smaller calorie deficit, we do a few other things, but then I've definitely got clients that are like, Hey, I just want to get this body composition goal out of the way so I can get back to enjoying training like I used to. And from there, we have to talk about, okay, well, you're going to have to pull back, we can't do it all. If we're if we want to have this calorie deficit, you can't be pushing 110%.

we may need to pull back on some training sessions, maybe, you know, incorporate more active rest days or that kind of stuff. Because again, as much as we want to be able to, you know, build muscle, lose fat, be anti-inflammatory, meet our iron, you know, like do everything all at once. It is really hard. And also throwing in like a busy schedule and everything like that. So you're better off taking a lot of these things in smaller chunks.

focusing on one thing at a time before we try and tackle everything.

Jonathan Steedman (17:42.026)

Yeah, yeah, so good. And so yeah, you can't do everything all at once. But also, like you said, if you, it's okay to have all those goals, and we could probably achieve all of those goals in 12 months, or in six months, or what have you, just not all at the same time. So we kind of can step that out. Yeah.

Jenna (17:57.134)

Yeah, yeah. Expectations are a big thing. you've got to, what are we working with? Like, yeah, cool. It might take 12 months, it might be a bit slower, or we can get down and dirty, get it over and done with, get you back to, you know, maintenance, eating a bit more, eating the things that you want to be doing for other goals.

Jonathan Steedman (18:05.183)

Yeah.

Jonathan Steedman (18:20.586)

Yeah. Yes. Good. So hopefully if someone is listening and they have struggled with this idea of like weight loss slash eating healthy or peak performance slash losing weight or trying to tick all the anti-inflammatory boxes while losing weight and struggling to do both of those things at once. Hopefully this has given them a bit of a like, it's okay that you can't do both things at once. It's not really, that's not really what we'd recommend, you know? And, and like you said, you don't completely drop one to achieve the other.

Jenna (18:46.488)

Yeah, I know.

Jonathan Steedman (18:50.485)

It's not like, forget about anti-inflammatory foods, just lose weight. But yeah, might have to compromise and pick one to focus on.

Jenna (18:58.732)

Yeah, I think it's also like important to also recognise that like, yeah, healthy eating is great, but there's nothing. One of the big frustrations that I hear from so many of my clients is like, but I'm eating so healthy. Like I thought that I really thought I would have lost some weight by now. And it's like, you are, you're doing an incredible job of eating healthy, but there are these small things that we need to do to move that need a little bit more into that calorie deficit and look.

as much as I love a poke bowl with smoked salmon and avocado, cool. We probably can't do that in that context if we're also gonna have, you know, like some rice and everything else. like, whilst that is a really nutritious meal, it's also not 100 % calorie budget friendly, depending on what your budget is. taking that pressure off you of like, well, I feel like I'm doing all of the things that I should be doing and it's not moving. It's like,

Jonathan Steedman (19:38.805)

Hmm.

Jenna (19:57.612)

Yeah, cool. That you are eating very healthy and everything, but there is just those small things that we need to change to push you back into that calorie deficit or into that calorie deficit.

Jonathan Steedman (20:12.553)

I think look, I definitely feel like you've got enough to turn this into a post now. So that's good. We'll just just condense 20 minutes of or 18 minutes into a into an Instagram post. No, that was awesome. Thank you. And like I said, I'm sure people listening to this will have a little bit of a aha moment of like, think I maybe have been focusing in too hard on one. And not, you know, like really focused on diet quality, and not paying any attention to calories. And maybe there's a few people that have realized they may be doing the opposite. And that's cool, too. So

Jenna (20:15.96)

It's

Jenna (20:41.491)

Yeah. We want to find that little sweet spot in the middle of our Venn diagram.

Jonathan Steedman (20:42.547)

Yeah, epic.

Jonathan Steedman (20:47.509)

middle of the Venn diagram. Yeah, and Jenna won't say it. So I'll say it. If you are struggling to find the sweet spot in the Venn diagram, go see Jenna. That's like her jam. Like that's one of the things she's really good at, you know, balancing those goals, setting expectations and helping you achieve both of those goals, but maybe in a one at a time fashion rather than a, you know, the chase two rabbits catch none. she'll help you build a plan, map it out and smash it. amazing.

Jenna (21:14.754)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Steedman (21:18.036)

Cool. We should chat slightly sooner next time versus like, I think this was a long, long time coming, but thanks for coming back on. Yeah, it was probably pretty close. Anyway, not this time. We'll chat sooner about something, but yes, thanks for coming. I'll chat to you soon.

Jenna (21:24.994)

Every six months.

Jenna (21:31.629)

Yeah.

Jenna (21:35.662)

So do you say?

Jonathan Steedman (21:37.556)

Bye! Oh no.