Jono (00:01.25)

Welcome back to the black nutrition podcast today. Jenna is back. I'm sure you guys all know Jenna. if you don't know Jenna, we've done lots of awesome, other podcasts. What have we done? We've done a gym myths one. We've done a fasted cardio. We've done sort of anxiety and depression nutrition for that. We've done a CrossFit one. Yeah. Yeah. So we've done lots. See she's, she's got range guys. and today we're talking about something a little bit different again. but I think something

Jenna (00:15.965)

We've done a crossfit one.

Jenna (00:23.463)

Mm -mm.

Jono (00:29.99)

Both of us work a lot with clients, but know in particular, Jen has got lots of clients with this extra thing to navigate, especially when it comes to the nutrition space. So we're going to be talking about ADHD and its impact on nutrition and health. We're not going to be explaining what ADHD is. If you don't know what it is, why are you listening to this episode? Slash, I don't know, go to a Google. But if you do know what it is,

and particularly if it's something that, you know, you have struggled with or are struggling with, we really hope that this is going to be a podcast that can give you some more information. we're not going to be talking about the nitty gritty micronutrient deficiencies and all of that kind of stuff, which is interesting data to read, but we find not very helpful. so I'm going to pick Jenna's brains to get all of your, good hacks and tips.

and things.

Jenna (01:28.443)

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Cause like, like we kind of spoke about, if you haven't listened to the anxiety podcast, kind of the same sort of feel of like, yeah, like there is definitely micronutrients that we're going to be deficient in if you have ADHD. But if you're not dealing with maybe some of the behavioral and the structural, you know, elements, then cool. It's not really going to do anything, just knowing that you're deficient in these things, if you're struggling to, you know, eat and, and yeah. So it kind of can just,

Jono (01:53.998)

feel worse.

Jenna (01:57.937)

you know, put another thing that your brain has to be thinking about when, look, if we have to tackle some other approaches, then usually we can fill some of those holes.

Jono (02:09.366)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're not saying micronutrient deficiencies aren't important. It's just probably in a roundabout way focusing on these things is going to help those more than you trying to get more vitamin B6 in your diet, for example, right? Cool. Sorry if anyone heard any frantic tapping in the background. As I opened my notes for the questions I need to ask Jennifer today, Google Drive just told me I had been signed

Jenna (02:26.781)

Mm -hmm.

Jono (02:38.594)

So I was quickly signing back in, but we're back. We're good. I've got my questions. boy. All right. Perfect. I guess like main thing, I feel like we started every podcast with this question that we've done together. And I think it's a good one. Why should we care? Why is this, why are these strategies important and why can ADHD make getting good nutrition tricky?

Jenna (03:05.093)

Yeah, absolutely. like, we've got to think about, we're not going to talk about what is ADHD, but there is a few common kind of traits that we do see in ADHD. And now, you know, if we're going to break it apart, there is like the hyperfixation or the inattentive kind of subtypes, or we can have that combination. And there is going to be things that overlap on all of them. And some are going to have their own sort of uniqueness, you know, things like that impulsivity, that cognitive sort of executive function.

are dopamine searching, all of those kinds of things that then start to loop in with our food, which makes it then harder to, you know, focus on eating all of the things that we should be doing. There is also a lot of research that links ADHD behaviors with some common disordered eating patterns, typically things like binge eating and bulimia, as well as struggles with our body image and all of those kinds of things as well.

on a whole outside of just the micronutrient sort of inadequacies that we might get, there are also some really big things about why we should care. And also we wanna, you you're gonna eat for the rest of your life. So we wanna make sure that this is something that is, you know, easy for you to do, or maybe takes just that little bit less brain function as well.

Jono (04:24.967)

Yeah. Yeah. And especially, guess, as well in terms of rest of your life, ADHD, at least at this stage, it's not something that you cure slash or fix. You know, there's definitely strategies to improve things, but I think,

I know for a lot of my clients, I've actually had quite a number of clients who I've worked with pre diagnosis and post diagnosis. And that shift mentally is so big for them because all of a sudden there, there's almost this explanation as to, you know, like that, that's why I was struggling with this. And it helps, I think, give them a mental shift of like, yeah, so maybe just doing what all your friends do to eat healthy, quote unquote, is not what you need to do. We need to build some specific strategies that take into account.

these those extra traits and things that might be complicating matters. yeah.

Jenna (05:11.399)

Yeah. The other thing to touch on there as well, like especially, you know, that pre and post diagnosis, there is with everything, a spectrum of these kinds of conditions. And so you may have some ADHD traits, maybe they're not impacting your life to a point where you, you know, get specifically that ADHD diagnosis, but you might find that even if, you know, maybe you're here because someone you love has ADHD

know, you're thinking that maybe you might be falling into this category, there is still probably some things in here that are going to be helpful even sort of, like I said, on that spectrum as well. So we're not all like one size fits all, all of that kind of thing.

Jono (05:55.542)

Yeah, this isn't the ADHD diet, the bite me nutrition ADHD diet. Well, like you said as well, I guess there's those, those traits that, you know, they're not, not every single person diagnosed with ADHD is going to identify with every single one of these traits. Right. So I think that I suspect there'll be something in here for everybody, which sounds like a gross marketing thing, but you know, like if the, if a few of these traits don't resonate with you, there'll probably be one that does. So,

Jenna (06:00.562)

gosh!

Jenna (06:22.916)

Mm -hmm.

Jono (06:24.938)

Yeah. let's what, what's one of the, what's the first thing I think we've, well, I know, cause I logged into my Google graph. so yeah. impulsivity and that kind of, guess, yeah. Managing that trait and working around that. Why is that a problem?

Jenna (06:46.885)

Yeah, I guess like that is the probably the biggest thing that we would encounter when it comes to working with clients with ADHD. I think it's something that resonates with a lot of people is that I guess almost like dopamine searching kind of thing, like where we're looking for food as a way to bring us some kind of enjoyment. And now I am yet to find someone with or without ADHD that finds, you know, that dopamine hit from eating.

tons of vegetables. So it does tend to be yeah, solve all of world problems. It does tend to be those poorer food choices that we have that kind of lack of control around or we have that kind of impulse to be eating. And obviously that is going to come with its own issues when it comes to weight management and things like that. But that can also be where a lot of the challenges around binge eating and the

Jono (07:18.496)

The dream.

Jenna (07:44.677)

other disordered eating behaviors that we tend to see can start to stem from because we start to get into that kind of negative spiral after we've had a period of maybe overeating or that impulsivity that's of driven our food choices.

Jono (07:59.946)

and so I guess people should just try harder and stop, right? That's, that's our, that's our suggestion. Yeah.

Jenna (08:04.589)

Just don't keep chocolate in the house. That's absolutely the solution to everything and anything.

Jono (08:10.454)

more discipline, more willpower. No. What are some actual practical strategies that you use to help people navigate, like you said, the fact that the veggies, the more nutrient -dense options maybe aren't giving us the dopamine hit that we're seeking.

Jenna (08:13.278)

You just don't want it bad enough.

Jenna (08:17.689)

hahahaha

Jenna (08:29.777)

Yeah. So there's something that I talk to a lot of clients, especially with ADHD and even outside of ADHD when we're talking around relationship with food, because it kind of blends in with each other. And it's this idea that we've got to give what the brain wants as well as what the body needs. And we've got to find a way that we can kind of keep those together. So we've got to think about, okay, well, the body, that sort of physiological side of us

know, food is fuel, we need to eat protein, know, micronutrients, all that kind of stuff, we need to give the body what it needs. But we also have the emotional side of what we're eating. So what our brain wants, and that's like the, things that make us feel good, the emotional connection, that kind of coping mechanisms, all that kind of stuff. And if we sit too far on either like side of this, we're going to just be in for a bad time to, you know, keep it pretty simple.

So if we're only focusing on food as fuel, and we're always trying to tell ourselves, no, we don't need those things that our brain wants, it's going to, you know, fracture that relationship with our food. If we only focus on what our brain wants, we're not giving our body what it needs. So it's coming together and understanding that both can coexist. So the idea to like in practical sense, say we have a, you know, an impulse, we crave those chocolates, which crave

chips, the higher energy things. It's okay, well, let's take that and let's incorporate it into something else that's going to give me what my body needs. So a good example is like sprinkling chocolate chips on top of your yogurt. So we've got a high protein yogurt. We're going to get protein. We're going to get calcium. You get all the good stuff from that. But then we've added in that thing that my brain also wants to get that kind of dopamine hit. We can also do the same kind of thing when it comes to like chips.

serving ourselves up like a grazing platter where we have a portion of those chips that we want, but we're also pairing it with maybe some dips and some veggie sticks so that we still get what our body needs. And so it's understanding that it's not one or the other, we can kind of do both together.

Jono (10:35.744)

Yeah, I love that. We talked about it before we hit record that give the brain what it wants so you can give the body what it needs. I think we're gonna get some, we're not gonna get me t -shirts made, I won't promise that, but like it would be a sweet t -shirt or maybe like a sticker. A sticker and people can put it on their laptop or their computer screen. Watch this space.

Jenna (10:54.343)

Yeah. Look, we got, we got to do a Mediterranean salmon wrap. Like we got tons of.

Jono (11:02.987)

Throwback to our anxiety and depression episode goes to that. But the, yeah, I think that's so important and such a, like a really good way of looking at it. Because it's too easy to, like I said, you go one or the other and need it, you know, too much of what the brain wants or too much of what the body needs. And that's not ideal either.

Jono (11:27.694)

Can give me one second? Sorry, I have marked it. Cut this out. I have a vista, of course.

Jono (12:21.155)

she had to tell me that Ralph drank out of her teacup. Ralph is our cat. great. Anyway, that was definitely worth the interruption and the editing that I'm gonna need to do. Cool. Actually, while we've paused, do you want me to ask you about the other two? The other like, yeah, cool.

Jenna (12:41.413)

Yeah, yeah, because I guess it kind of like goes into that's the overarching idea and then all right well there's some other things that you can kind of do.

Jono (12:49.186)

Here's how to make that happen. Yeah.

Jenna (12:53.841)

You can even talk about your gateway

Jono (12:54.798)

I remember what saying. yeah, that was not actually, yeah, okay, cool, hold on. me.

Jono (13:04.374)

I had a client talk about something called gateway snacking. That was a phrase she came up with. So I'm certainly not claiming that, but I think it's pretty similar to what you were talking about in that like she found that if she started her snack or her meal with, I had a bit of chocolate or a bit of, you know, I had something crunchy, something, then it was easier for her to finish that and then move on to the quote unquote, more nutrient dense part of her meals. So I guess if the slightly

politically incorrect gateway snacking phrase works for you, then use that. Otherwise, yeah, think about giving the brain what it wants and giving the body what it needs. Either are fine as well. And so I know another thing we've spoken about in the past is I guess some more practical like setup, I guess. I know you joked about don't keep chocolate in the house. We don't necessarily love that as a strategy, but what are some, there are some things we can probably do on that front to help.

Jenna (13:59.707)

Yeah, I found with a lot of my clients also restructuring things like their refrigerator and their pantry and essentially like their food environment to set themselves up with the most success. again, a lot of these things can be applied to people outside of ADHD as well. So like everyone could be doing this kind of thing. You don't have to have your fridge set up in some conventional way. Like you can do whatever, you know, maximizes, you know, efficiency for you.

What I get a lot of my clients to do as well is if they've got those foods that they find that they're constantly reaching for that they kind of they know they're there and they're it's not like they're gonna miss them in any way so we're not necessarily necessarily hiding them but putting things like you know your chocolates into a Tupperware container putting that Tupperware container into the veggie crisper making sure then that we've got the things that we want to pair them with at eye level so it's like okay well I'm going to reach for my chocolate

You're going to make it a little bit harder for myself to get to. So it's not always that first thing that I'm looking at, but making sure I've got those easy grab like yogurts. I've got fruit already set out that I can just cheese sticks, all that kind of stuff at my eye level. So as soon as I open it, cool. That's what I'm going to grab. The things that are usually going to go off quickly again, keeping them at eye level. And you can do the same kind of thing with your pantry as well. Like again, hiding things, keeping things in plain sight, essentially.

Something that I also have found works really well with some of my clients as well. It doesn't necessarily work with everyone is, and I guess I think we're going to talk about this in a minute as well, but there's overlap in all of these things, is getting a whiteboard and chucking a whiteboard on your refrigerator and literally writing down what is in there.

Jono (15:37.332)

Mm -hmm.

Jenna (15:45.437)

so that before you've even opened the fridge, you know what it is that you're kind of looking for, or you know what it's in there, you're not sort of searching for anything. It's like, I know there's yogurt in there. know there's always, yogurt seems to be my go -to kind of snack. There is more to the world than yogurt, but you know what I mean. But that can also be super helpful. Yeah, I've moved on from baked beans and co -cheers. That's 2023, it's yogurt now.

Jono (16:00.334)

That's your go -to.

baked beans and cottage cheese. Yeah, it's yogurt, clearly. Love

Jenna (16:13.393)

Yeah. Other than that, like some other things that can help with impulsivity is those really quick sort of assembly style meals, because you can imagine, okay, we're talking about this kind of hyper fixation on a certain kind of food, but it is also at the same time, this idea that I'm hungry, I'm hungry right now, and I've got to eat right now. Otherwise, my attention is going to go elsewhere at any moment.

So making sure that we're keeping things in the pantry, in the fridge that can make us those really quick, know, like the microwave rice, you know, pre -cooked proteins, all that kind of stuff. So I can make a meal really, really quickly while I'm in that moment of ready to kind of eat. And then I guess the last one, and this one is something that I've kind of experimented a little bit with some of my clients. I have one client, they haven't had a, you know, definite ADHD.

diagnosis, but there's obviously some traits there. They would find that they would come home at the end of their work week, the first thing that they would do would order a pizza because that's what they wanted. And even though they knew that that's not really what they needed in that moment, that was just kind of all their brain could focus on. So we trialed instead of coming home and that being the ritual, it was, okay, I'm going to come home. They enjoy playing video games. So it's all right. Well, I'm going to go play video games for that dopamine hit. And then we made

few tweaks to some food choices and stuff as well, but finding those other activities away from food that give you that same kind of like positive reinforcement almost.

Jono (17:49.984)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you can see how all of these could, well, who do work together. Right. So if you had that client who, okay, we were able to get maybe a different activity for the dopamine. And then when they did come to plan what they were going to have for dinner, they had the whiteboard on the fridge. So that made it quick and easy. And the fridge was filled with quick, easily, easily assembled options. You know, all of these things can kind of stack together. And in terms of the setup of the pantry in the fridge,

think about what supermarkets do, right? The way that they put at eye level, they put the stuff that makes them the most money because they want you to buy it. And I feel like they've probably put a few million, bajillion dollars into researching to see if that works and they wouldn't do it if it didn't work. yeah, there's definitely a lot to that whole choice architecture. So sort of like, I guess we've touched on the white boarding and, you know, the easily assembling, man, can't talk.

Jenna (18:40.632)

Absolutely.

Jono (18:49.322)

easily assembled options. I know from a lot of my ADHD clients, probably the number one, I shouldn't have ranked it, but a very big struggle as well is this whole meal planning, meal prep, and how to navigate that. I guess why, I think we all know why that could be a problem, right? If you don't have things planned, you don't have things prepped.

our go -to's typically aren't as nutrient dense as those options that are going to be there. But so how do we navigate that? How do we build some structures to support

Jenna (19:23.661)

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Like the kind of challenges with the meal planning and the meal preparation. I don't think that this is ADHD alone. I spend hours in my week convincing people that if you just do one thing, please just do this. Because yeah, you're going to struggle with that impulsivity if you don't know what your plan is. Like that's kind of human nature. If you don't know what you're eating, then of course you're always going to lean to what again, what your brain wants.

And so there comes down like those really simple things of actually physically writing down. These are my meals. This is my shopping list. That's kind of number one. Creating that kind of menu. doesn't necessarily have to be Monday I'm eating this, Tuesday I'm eating this. It's a bit of a range of different things. Using online, you know, food, like Click and Collect or food delivery as well because another struggle could be is, okay, well,

Firstly, I've got to write my shopping list, but once I'm in the grocery store, there's all of this temptation and I'm probably going to end up with twice as much as then what I actually really need. So if I could do it online, there's less of that temptation. And then the other thing is you can save that cart. We're all creatures of habit. We all rotate through the same kinds of meals. So once you've saved it, cool. That's week one.

Jono (20:40.916)

Yes.

Jenna (20:48.945)

the next week, maybe a week to, and then you can just kind of rotate through these things and it's already done for you. So they would kind of be like the two obvious things when it comes to that meal planning and the meal preparation. And then like those more nitty gritty things around like keeping the whiteboard. What have you got in the fridge? What have you got in the freezer? Like what have you meal prepped? What is sitting in the freezer for you to actually eat? Because out of sight, out of mind is a really big struggle for people with ADHD as well, is that they just tend to forget, you know,

Jono (20:54.456)

Hmm.

Jenna (21:18.993)

the things that they've done previously to set themselves up for success. So that's another thing. And then yeah, the the ready made things, the ready made meals, frozen veggies, precooked, you know, chicken, the rice, all that kind of stuff can help with that prep side of things because we're not actually having to do a lot of cooking. And then one other thing that I found really helpful, not necessarily from the planning perspective, but more from that kind of preparation standpoint is, all right, well, let's choose one meal.

that we can adapt in a number of different ways. And this kind of can also lead into what we're going to talk about maybe the last is like the food fixations and the ick that, you know, it's very common with with ADHD is okay. Well, maybe I make a Mexican style mince and I can use that in a number of different ways. I could make tacos, burritos, nachos, burrito bowls. I can put it on toast. I can, you know, do a ton of different things. Make a toasted sandwich with it. You can do so many things with one.

Jono (22:14.926)

Mm.

Jenna (22:16.217)

simple meal and then that can also help like you're only having to make one thing but you can turn it into a number of different things as well. But they're kind of my biggest tips around like the meal prepping and the planning.

Jono (22:31.584)

Yeah. So good. Yeah. I like, I love the have a staple that is super flexible and can be used in so many different ways to, like you said, we'll touch on the Ick a little bit later, but that's probably one of the main ways to navigate that. I think I find as well people here meal prepping and assume that we're talking about filling your fridge with, know, five Tupperware containers for lunch, five Tupperware containers for dinner. And like that works really well for some people. And if that's you, hells yeah. But

Jenna (22:53.565)

of workadonis.

Jono (23:01.28)

I think there's such a spectrum of what prepping can look like prepping can just literally be. Like you said, making a batch of Mexican mince that's flexible, or maybe it's just chopping up some veggies. So all you've got to do is steam them or roast them or stir fry them. You don't actually have to cut them up or, know, all of those different things. and also I find with meal planning, some people really enjoy Monday. I'm doing this Tuesday. doing this Wednesday. I'm doing this and like, it's quite specific and that's awesome.

but I also know that for a lot of people that feels too structured and too restrictive. so it can also be, well, this week I'm going to have these five meals and each night and that way, you know what the meals are going to be. So you can shop accordingly, but then each day you can kind of just pull from your pool of meals. yeah, don't, if you heard meal planning and meal prep and kind of tuned out, cause you're like, we're not doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go, go back to the beginning and listen again. Not the whole thing. but yeah, there's.

Jenna (23:51.943)

Come back, come back.

Jono (24:00.083)

We don't necessarily mean that perfect Excel spreadsheet robotic kind of level of prep.

Jenna (24:08.391)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even like, I do it myself, like cook up a batch of rice for the week, or I cook up a batch of pasta for the week, because one, resistant starch is super, super important. But two, it just makes life super easy. Like lunches, dinners, like you've always got that kind of staple carbohydrate. And then again, yeah, you can mix up the protein that you put on it. You can mix up the sauces that you put on it. Like

Jono (24:21.966)

Mm

Jono (24:31.128)

super flexible.

Jenna (24:34.727)

Personally, and I know personal opinions aren't science, but I hate eating our Tupperware containers and so I, the thought of cooking five meals for a week, look, that's not what we're talking about. But like I said, if that's you and you use your jam, go for it. But there's other ways to

Jono (24:49.774)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think it's well, all or nothing, which we could do a million podcasts on. It is that, right? I'm either all in terms of, I'm either doing full 10 meals of Tupperware or I can't prep. And the answer is, the reality is actually there's lots and lots of stages in between those two extremes that can be really helpful. That's always, Probably changing gear a little bit. I know that this is another massive topic that I have lots of conversations with and it's exacerbated a lot by...

Jenna (24:57.009)

Hahaha!

Jenna (25:05.659)

Yeah. There's always a spectrum. Yeah.

Jono (25:19.778)

the typical types of medications that we see to help support ADHD. So appetite and fluctuations in that throughout the day and kind of, guess, unnatural impacts on your appetite and then that leading into people, their meal timings and their meal structure being wonky. Why is that or how can that be a

Jenna (25:42.033)

Yeah, absolutely. It's always a conversation that you have with that first person who's just started their ADHD medication. And it seems like such a wonderful thing that you're like, yeah, I'm just not hungry all day. Like, it's great. can keep going. And cause you know, a lot of things with ADHD can also, there's some body image stuff in there as well. And so they're like, yeah, cool. Well, now I'm not eating. Like this is going to be great.

Jono (25:57.633)

Yeah.

Jenna (26:08.413)

And that's not great. We know that we have to keep eating our regular meals. That's always important because what you're going to find is that that medication is really just like a bandaid. And so when that starts to wear off, you're going to really struggle with that brain fatigue, which is the big one is like your brain has just been on and on and on because we've had that medication, you know, keeping you focused, keeping you doing what you need to do for the day.

starts to wear off, you haven't given your body any food, so it's now just gonna kind of shut down. Then we're gonna be more inclined to overeat later, to binge potentially, and then also thinking about the rest of the things that a lot of people have in their life. Like if you're trying to fit exercise in with that, if you're trying to fit in, you know, playing with the kids, running around with the, you know, the family, getting them to the places that they need to be. If you're not eating regularly, you're gonna really struggle with

So it is really, really important that we find ways to be medicated and eat anyway. We're just gonna run off that same idea of we just have to do these things anyway sometimes. So yeah, sometimes I found the biggest tip and this is commonly what happens with ADHD medications when people do start taking them is making sure that you're having

Jono (27:16.074)

eat anyway.

Jenna (27:31.279)

with your biggest meal of the day. Usually that's breakfast. We're usually having them either first thing in the morning or we might be having one just before we go to bed. So making sure that we're setting ourselves up with success, having a meal before we've potentially suppressed our appetite. And then on top of that, okay, we've maybe got to set some reminders, set some kind of routine that's going to remind us that, hey, you might not feel hungry right now, but I can guarantee you still need to eat something.

Jono (27:59.79)

Mm, yep. You had that epic reminder hack. So we both like setting two reminders or two alarms, right? Because you need, one alarm is not enough because it's too easy to cancel or snooze or ignore, right? So we're both really big fans of if, let's say you want to set an alarm or an alert for lunch, you set one at 11 .30 and one at 12 .30, for example. I find the first one can be really helpful because you might cancel

Jenna (28:12.849)

Ignore

Jono (28:28.408)

but it at least plants that seed mentally of like, hey, food. And so maybe the appetite does kind of start to wake up just a little bit. But I loved your hack with the, what was the little, like you put a little thing on the, this will be quick or something.

Jenna (28:43.343)

Yeah. Because what I tend to find as well with a lot of, and again, this, this is different with each individual, but also that hyper fixation of like, okay, I'm in the zone, I'm crushing work right now. I get the reminder, cool, it's lunchtime. And you're like, yeah, great. But like, I'm doing this. And this is really important. And maybe this is only going to take me another five minutes. It actually always takes longer than that. So then we're having

That second reminder that says, and essentially setting up those kind of like eating windows, like you said, like we've got one reminder at 1130 that's like, Hey, we probably should eat now. And then another one that's like hard and fast. You have to stop what you're doing. Eat now. And putting literally putting on there, this will take five minutes. It's reminding you that cool. We've got something prepped. We've got something planned. We know what we're having. It's only going to take me five minutes to go.

microwave that, get it out of the fridge, actually eat it, and I'm going to feel so much better for it. So it's that remembering that it's not as big a task as you think it's going to be. But yeah, definitely two reminders, always two reminders.

Jono (29:48.375)

So good.

Jono (29:55.968)

Yep, two reminders. And yes, absolutely love the second one being like, Hey, this will only take five minutes. Stop. and, and like you said as well, they fit like, get it. You, you feel like you're really crushing it you want to keep going with that. That's going to wear out pretty quickly if you don't feel your brain, right? So it might feel like a five minute pause now is going to ruin the course of your day, but it's actually probably going to allow you to crush that thing for much, much longer.

Jenna (30:14.448)

Absolutely.

Jono (30:23.976)

And also importantly, like you said before, help you with any activities you have to do after work. Hopefully you've got more life than work. So hopefully you're taking the dog for a walk or you're going to the gym or you're catching up with your family and all of those things require fuel as well. And it would suck if you've given all of yourself to your work. And so by the end of that day, you can't be your best self with those other areas of your life. So yes, yes.

Jenna (30:49.585)

Yeah. There's also a few other things too, and like, okay, some things that I found work, but again, this outer sight, outer mind idea is cool. Keep your, typically it's lunch that we tend to skip, but there's also, there's snacks in there as well across the day. Keep your shelf stable snacks literally in front of you on your desk. Keep a component of your lunch. If it is shelf stable, bang smack in the middle of

Jono (31:04.278)

Always lunch.

Jenna (31:19.117)

know kitchen bench so that that way again it's it's a visual reminder of like okay i've had the visual reminder of the notification i walk out of my office whether i'm at i'm talking maybe working from home more but this can still work with your if you're working in an office as well like you've got your lunch box and whatnot but my god that could be a whole other spiral of just packing bloody lunch but anyway

If it's there, it's visual, it reminds you that, yeah, cool. I've got that thing that I've got to eat. And that's can be another sort of extra level. And then also thinking about removing any distractions that we also have, because if we're distracted, we're also not going to be in touch with how we're feeling in terms of our hunger cues when we're full. And I know it can sound, you know, a bit woo woo and a bit silly, but really focusing on like that mindfulness and being present and trying to

Jono (31:50.104)

Mm.

Jenna (32:13.543)

concentrate on eating in that moment as

Jono (32:17.28)

Yeah. Yeah. think any external triggers that you can put out there like alarms or the things sitting in front of your desk or the, the lunch bag sitting on your, your, kitchen bench. Those are all, they're all going to be helpful. I guess another, like similar to the whole food inconsistency in dysregulation of appetite, hydration.

or lack thereof can also definitely be something that we struggle with. once again, I've got plenty of clients who don't have too many other ADHD traits but still struggle with hydration. So what a, again, I don't think we need to, you just have to trust us that poor hydration is not good for you and not ideal. Surely, yeah.

Jenna (33:05.753)

Everyone knows that you have to drink water. It's like veggies. You have to do it. We don't need to explain to you why

Jono (33:12.886)

Yeah, yeah, you're an adult. Let's figure out how to get it done. So what are some other than drink more water? What are some ways that you find help clients get in more hydration?

Jenna (33:23.751)

I find habit stacking to be a really useful tool. so it can be, look, it can be anything. We all have something that we do in our day that is, you know, ritual or routine, whether that be, you know, brushing your teeth, whether it be having a coffee in the morning, having breakfast, taking medications, you know, there's a ton of things that we're always going to be doing. So we've got that habit already.

let's chuck another one on top of it because it's going to be easier for you to remember if it's on top of something you're already doing. for example, like if you're going to be brushing your teeth, okay, can I have a glass of water before I brush my teeth because afterwards would just be painful. Yeah. So before I brush my teeth and literally have a cup with your toothbrush. So as I'm going to put the toothpaste on my toothbrush, I'm going to fill up that cup. I'm going to have a drink of water. Then I'm going to brush my teeth.

Jono (34:08.92)

course.

Jenna (34:21.585)

Same thing when I'm making my coffee, going to have a cup of water while my coffee is brewing. Those small things are going to add up over time to help you just get that one extra glass or that few extra sips in. So habit stacking is a big one that I find that works for majority of people. And I know that people with ADHD do still struggle with remembering to do some tasks, but there is always something in their day that is still routine that we can.

piggyback on. And then I guess like the other thing, like keeping that glass of water, or the empty glass with your toothbrush. Okay, well, can we set up different glasses in different rooms again for that visual reminder. So when I walk into my office, I always have a cup on my desk that reminds me that I've got to fill that up to have water, I always have a cup of water sitting in the kitchen, there's a cup of water in, you'll end up with a ton of cups,

know if we've got those things that are already around it's kind of it's already a bit of a visual stanley cups look how many of us i know you and i are not on the stanley train we're all strict yeti yeah but again like we've all got those you know convenient cups in it these days so it's keeping them in plain sight that's you know going to be real key with

Jono (35:20.396)

with it.

Jono (35:29.55)

I was going to say, we're Team Yeti. Yeah.

Jono (35:44.492)

Hmm. Yep. Well, and spending a little bit of extra money on a fancy

I think I know it sounds silly, but if you consider it as an investment in your hydration, cause it kind of is because like, it's drinking out of a plastic cup versus a Yeti or a Stanley cup, or I bought a wanky Japanese ceramic coffee mug. And cause I have my ritual of having coffee in them and it just, it just elevated that 2 % or even 5%. But if it's something I'm doing every day, I think that's worth it. Right. And same thing. If, if, if you have to spend $30 on a glass, like

Obviously, in isolation, sounds insane. But if that means that when you sit down at your desk, you see that really nice glass, and that makes you drink more water, then I think that's actually a very cheap investment considering the impact.

Jenna (36:34.555)

And that kind of leads on to like another idea of making things fun. So if you're buying the more expensive glass or cup or whatever, like you're probably getting a fun color, you're going to get a fun pattern or a fun shape, whatever it is, make it fun. And you can also do other things like, you know, maybe we add some sugar -free cordial or some diet cordial to that water so it tastes fun as well. It's something else that's a bit sweet.

Jono (36:39.373)

Mm.

Jenna (37:01.051)

gets you a bit more excited for it. know, cups of tea, cups of, you know, the hot teas and the cold teas, they're all still water. They're all still going to, you know, fall into this same category. So can we do something that's going to make the water a little bit more fun? So you're more inclined to want to drink it as

Jono (37:20.662)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, T2 have a range. So you need to be careful because some of them can be loaded with added sugar, which, you know, is not necessarily good or bad. It's probably just worth checking the label to know what you're getting. but they've got a few like that are those cold water herbal infusions specifically designed for cold water and whatnot. And I'm fairly certain that uncaffeinated as well. which can be handy.

Jenna (37:33.607)

movement there.

Jono (37:49.496)

Cool, so drink some water, make it fun, make the vehicle fun and put triggers everywhere that you can. Buy six Stanley cups. No, that might be quite the investment.

Jenna (38:03.547)

we might need to get a Stanley Cup promo code.

Jono (38:06.87)

Yeah. I so want to get a Yeti with the bite me nutrition logo, like laser Monica would look so good. Anyway, anyway, that's not what we're to talk about. last thing. and again, like we've touched on, there's probably a number of strategies we've already talked about that are going to help with this, but definitely that, sudden food aversion that you get fixated on a food.

Jenna (38:32.436)

Hmm.

Jono (38:34.358)

It's been your go -to lunch for three weeks. You're obsessed. And then one day you wake up and the thought of it, like you get the ick, the thought of having it just, you just can't do it. Right. how do we, well, we don't stop that, right. That is, think accepting that it's probably going to be something that is going to happen, but how can I navigate that? And what can I do in that scenario?

Jenna (38:40.646)

It's the egg.

Jenna (38:52.977)

Yeah, that's probably the bit like, again, the hyper fixation or that sort of impulsivity and then the food aversions and the ick is some of the big things that we really struggle with. I guess there is components of everything that we've kind of already talked about that's going to help with this. So, all right, you're going to get the ick. Can I have plan B options in the fridge, in the freezer that I can pivot to of like, okay,

no, I'm not having this anymore. If that's okay, I've got something else that maybe I want instead. And in all honesty, like there's a lot of safe foods that we do start to develop. Like you will start to pick up on the foods that you sort of fixate on. And once you've had the ick to one, cool, we're gonna pivot to another kind of safe food. So maybe thinking about what they are for you and being able to build a meal around that. So again, it comes down to

planning and that preparation like if we don't have an idea of what we're eating or some of our options of things that we could eat we're going to get like fall into that trap of alright well I'm just gonna open the Uber Eats and I'm just gonna go get myself some GYG because that's the easier thing to do when it's like no no this is my plan this is my you know plan B that I can pivot to. Some other things that can be helpful and

might be more necessarily while we're still in that food fixation stage before we get to the ick and it might help to prolong that from happening. Similar to kind of like that Mexican mince idea, it's like okay well can I mix up some of the components in the meal? Maybe it's not the things that make that meal what that means, like the heart of the meal, it's the other things around it. So like maybe I'm gonna you know switch out the veggies or the types of veggies that I have with it every couple of days

Jono (40:38.2)

Mm -mm.

Jenna (40:46.331)

Maybe I switch from a rice to a pasta every couple of days just to still keep it feeling like it is like a, you know, Mexican style meal. But I've mixed up some of the components that potentially could cause the ick, you know, coming. But like said, it's not something that we can really avoid completely. It's just knowing that, okay, it's coming. Have I got my plan in place? How can I pivot away once this does happen?

kind of the big ones.

Jono (41:17.079)

Yep. Yeah. Again, planning and prep. But no, really, I do like the idea of can we prolong the ick? Well, not prolong, push the ick back by, like you said, keeping the core component of the meal the same, i .e. the mints, but going through toast, burrito balls, nachos, burritos, those sorts of things. And maybe we don't get the ick quite as, as soon as if we're literally having the exact same burrito.

the same veggies and same everything.

Awesome. This is so good.

Jenna (41:53.809)

The other thing too, this kind of like, again, relates to every single person on the planet is it's never going to be perfect and stop striving for it to be perfect. You've got to embrace the things that, you know, what you're working with, what you struggle with and cool. There is going to be a time when maybe our plan does have a hole in it and that's okay. We need to go back, reflect what happened. Can I put something in, but some things we can't put in place, but just appreciating

It's not the end of the world if, you know, there is one meal or one time that things don't go to plan. It's making sure that cool. How quickly can I get back onto plan and not just sort of throwing my hands up in the air and giving into the ADHD. It's like, no, no, there are some things that I can do to help manage this.

Jono (42:45.066)

Yeah, absolutely. That and I think also, no.

Jenna (42:48.919)

I just I remembered one really, this might be very singular client orientated with the food aversions. This is more food fixations. If you find that you do get a food fixation, lean into it. I have one particular client in mind who has ADHD. And we have literally made it a game of her food fixations where we have

printed out our 30 plants document that we have and we've used it as her current fixation is now to see how many plants she can get, see how many things she can cross off that list. We've done the same thing when it comes to like nuts and seeds. We've done the same thing with protein sources. So again, like having that visual that's on her fridge that she's like, hey, I'm winning this game and I'm crossing off all of these things. That can also be a great thing because

Jono (43:35.214)

Mm.

Jono (43:43.341)

Yeah,

Jenna (43:47.613)

problem with these food fixations is we fixate on one thing and we don't get that diversity that we need to meet those nutritional inadequacies. So again, another sort of simple thing. I'm so glad that I remembered that because that one was ton of fun.

Jono (44:00.398)

That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of like hacking the brain chemistry as the bros would say, but it kind of is, like you said, you've got this trait that it's almost kind of getting it to work for you rather than against you, right? Which is, yeah, that's killer. Well, look, I don't need to tell everybody this. If you've listened thus far, you'll know that.

Jenna (44:13.361)

Yeah, lean into

Jono (44:22.382)

Clearly Jenna is like filled with strategies for these situations, which is fantastic. So I've learned a ton of stuff, even just having this conversation as well. And I'm go take it away and work on it with my clients as well. if you are listening to this and any of this has resonated with you, but you're struggling to put this plan in place, reach out to Jenna. She's, build a game, get your checklist happening. We'll, I don't

Jenna (44:47.804)

Make it fun.

Jono (44:48.991)

All the things, all the things. So yeah, absolutely. Hopefully you've taken something away from, hopefully, I'm sure you have taken something away from this, but if you haven't, that's fine too. Send it to someone in your life who maybe is struggling with something like this or is struggling with ADHD. But if you personally are, please ignore the knocking. It's my kid. It'll be done in a second. If you personally are struggling with ADHD or some of these traits or some of these nutrition things have resonated with you.

Don't, like, it's not gonna go away. So reach out, let Jenna help build the game. The knocking is not stopping. So I better say goodbye. Thank you so much, Jenna, for coming on and sharing all your strategies and hacks and things. Always awesome to chat about this sort of stuff. Thanks for listening, guys. And I'll chat to you next time. All right, bye.

Jenna (45:27.943)

Thank you.

Jenna (45:34.237)

Bye.