Jono (00:01.912)

Hey food groupies, today we're gonna be talking about ultra -processed foods or UPFs. It's a topic that, like we've known about them for a while, they've been on the radar since food processing, I guess, but things got a bit more serious in 2009 with the development of something called the Nova classification, or it was developed at a university in Brazil, so Nova just means new, I think.

I'm very monolingual, I'm pretty sure that's all right. And so it's like this new classification of foods, rather than classifying them based on nutrient status, it's to do with the level of processing. And from that classification system, we've got this kind of new group of foods that we've referred to as ultra processed foods. The foods themselves aren't new, they've been around for decades, it's more just that kind of classification, that name for them.

And so I pulled a few definitions of what an ultra processed food is out of the studies. An ultra processed foods are edible products containing ingredients that extend palatability, profitability, and shelf life. Or formulations of ingredients mostly of exclusive industrial use typically created by a series of industrial techniques and processes. But my favorite, I guess, description of them I pulled from Alan Flanagan, the nutritional advocate, and that is basically just foods you can't really make at home, right? I can't make Pringles at home.

So that's ultra process. I guess technically I could make ice cream and yogurt at home, but again, it's not something that I just quickly whip up. There's quite a process to them. Ha ha. So I want to go through, well, that's what they are. I've already done that. Good job, me. But this will be relatively short podcast, because even though there's a lot of research and there's a lot to unpack and kind of discuss, I think it's a relatively straightforward. What you need to worry about or what you need to do with the information is relatively straightforward.

Okay. because basically we've kind of got two groups that, or there's two schools of thought around, the level of processing of the food is the most important thing, right? That's where this no, the classification has come from. it's, it's not about the nutrients. There's no reference to the nutrient content of the food at all in that classification. So they don't look at how much sodium, how much saturated fat, the vitamins and minerals, the fiber, the protein, they don't, that classification system doesn't take any of that into account. It just looks at how processed the food is. Right.

Jono (02:21.488)

There's sort of four tiers, you got minimally unprocessed through to ultra processed, right? So that's the first thing. The second one is, guess, people being like, it doesn't really matter how processed it is, it's really just about the nutrient content, you know, a bit more of a, I guess, if it fits your macros vibe, but still just focused on, you ticking numbers, know, vitamins, minerals, those sorts of things, right? I think like most...

Any decent science communicator that you've listened to, probably find that they rarely, they rarely say, things are rarely black and white. So saying it's just about the nutrient status of the content of the food, or it's just about how processed the food is. That's just a massive oversimplification of how food works. And so anyone who's coming at you with like, that food's bad, it's processed. You can just ignore them, right? But also simultaneously or concurrently, I always get them mixed up.

if someone is like, doesn't matter how processed it is, like every all foods, like a nutrient is a nutrient. I would be careful with that too. I think we need to be grownups about this and we need to sit somewhere in the middle. I am not suggesting that, ultra processed foods are going to kill you and your family and that you should never consume them. I'm also not going to suggest that you should have a diet that's built exclusively on ultra processed foods. Absolutely. think anyone who's vaguely intelligent around this stuff is still going to be.

recommending you get the majority of your diet where possible from minimally processed on fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds. Like even though there's some processing going on there, they're still minimally processed, right? lean proteins, you know, those sorts of things. but I guess that kind of just brings me to the take home message. The issue with ultra processed foods as a classification is there's such a, such a broad group.

I don't think it's a particularly helpful way to look at foods. Like on a day -to -day basis, sure from studies and policy and that it's important, but for you to assess whether you should eat a food based on just its level of processing is a bit overly simplistic. Cause otherwise you're to kind of include Greek yogurt in your diet the same way that you would include Pringles. Cause they're both ultra processed foods. And so hopefully you can see that a classification system that

Jono (04:46.776)

puts them in the same bucket does not contain enough granularity. It doesn't contain enough detail for us to, for it to be helpful. Because hopefully I don't need to tell you that Pringles are going to have a different impact on your health and nutrient status as Greek yogurt. Right. And that's really the issue. And we've seen this in studies, right? There was a study that came out pretty recently looking at ultra processed foods impact on cardiovascular disease.

And they did decide differentiate that's what I was looking for. They did kind of put different ultra processed foods into different camps, which was kind of cool. So we had like dairy products, we had bread, we had savory snacks, we had processed meats, we had sugar sweetened beverages. So like soft drinking and those sorts of things, right. And they got to see how these kind of little camps of ultra processed foods impacted your risk on cardiovascular disease. And it's probably not a surprise. Well, to some.

other people might find it surprising that there were different impacts. found that processed meats and sugar sweetened beverages increased your risk of cardiovascular disease, right? Those are ultra processed foods, but other ultra processed foods such as dairy, bread, savory snacks actually decreased your risk of cardiovascular disease. just looking at, it's ultra processed, it's bad, or it's ultra processed, it doesn't matter. As you can see, based on the studies, that's not how we should be thinking about foods.

We need to be thinking a bit more broadly and a bit more in depth about, okay, yeah, okay, it's processed, but what else is going on? How processed is it? What other nutrients are contained within it, right? So all of those things are really, really critical. One other cool discussion that has been coming up for a while now, which I've, if you follow Dr. Nicola guess, I think Dr. Guess, anyway, dr .guess, G -U -E -S -S on Instagram. She's a weapon. She's posted lots of really good stuff.

about the whole conversation around ultra -processed foods. And one thing that she's really commented on is how important the texture of a food is, sorry for that motorbike in the background, and how the texture of a food can really drive one of the impacts or negative impacts that we kind of feel like ultra -processed foods will have. So we've seen studies where ultra -processed foods really drive...

Jono (07:08.896)

our calorie intake. And I don't think that's going to surprise too many people, right? I know that I can eat way more Pringles than I can apples because they are developed to have that texture, that crunch. There's more calories per bite. So they increase what is called eating rate. So I eat faster. They also increase my energy intake rate, but you know, I'm more calories per minute, essentially. previously, or I think earlier on, we were sort of thinking like the more processed the food is, the faster I eat it and the more

calories per minute I can get in. But when we tease that out a little bit more, it actually looks more like the texture of the food is more impactful. And so while yes, some processed highly, what are we talking about? Ultra processed foods can be soft textured and therefore I'm probably gonna overeat them much more easily. We also see similar things with minimally processed foods that are soft textured. And we see with hard textured ultra processed foods, they don't seem to.

increase our energy intake rate quite the same. So again, it's not just about the level of processing. We also need to look at the texture and the calorie density and all of these other factors in foods. So the take home message, don't get too hung up on whether a food is ultra processed or not, right? That is it's too vague to matter. It's kind of like saying, are you human or not? Sure, that's a good place to start, but within being a human,

you know, there's so many different races, sexual, like this, you know, it's just so nonspecific to the point that it's not super helpful. So we need to go a few layers deeper. Maybe have a look at the texture of your food. Opting for harder textured foods can slow down your energy intake a little bit. But ultimately the main take home should be if you are building your diet, your daily food intake on.

relatively unprocessed things, fruits, vegetables, lower processed grains, low protein, low fat protein, lean protein sources, healthy fats, olive oil, avocado, nuts, seeds, all of those sorts of things. And you are including some ultra processed foods on top of that, especially if those ultra processed foods are more of the yogurts and the breads and the things that we have seen can actually, again, increase your health and reduce your risk of disease.

Jono (09:28.354)

Please don't get involved in this ultra processed food conversation. Just ignore it. Know that you're doing really well. Your diet's great. And if it also occasionally includes some Pringles, you're still gonna be fine. I think that's it. Anyway, thank you. If you've got questions, let me know. Otherwise, I'll chat to you next time.